MyDD :: A Woman President in my Lifetime

A Woman President in my Lifetime

by wiscogirl101, Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:15:26 PM EST

I share the desire of millions of other women who wish to see a woman elected President in my lifetime. Admittedly, to an extent I do think it is still somewhat of 'an old boys' system..ALTHOUGH...compared to even 30 years ago, its an improvement.

I admire Hillary for running and putting herself through the nastiness of the campaign...but thats basically where my admiration of her ends. I will let it be known that while I do want to see a woman elected, and while I'd of course vote for her if she is the nominee, I did not support her this primary. That is my right as a woman and as an American, to choose who I felt was the better candidate.

Without giving out my age, I belong to the infamous Generation X, who along with the Millenials (born after 1982) are pretty much responsible for giving the Democratic Party, and hopefully America..Barack Obama. My generation and the one behind me have the most to gain..or lose.. by our decisions, and we take it seriously contrary to the complaints of some older people.

And without calling out a specific diarist, I will call to attention her diary on women sufferages. Women my age and younger do recognize the achievements of the women who fought for the right to vote and labor rights. However, many of us are less likely to vote for a woman because some feel 'its time'.

I believe we'll have a woman president. I believe she'll come from my age group (born in the late 1960s or 1970s) probably in the next 20-30 years... is strong (like Hillary), very intelligent (like Hillary), right on the issues, experienced, but not as controversial as Hillary and won't need to constantly remind America that 'it's time for a woman President"..which was kind of a turn-off to some of us younger women.

Anyway, at least 40% of us voted for Obama..on average. Politicians like Hillary and Obama come and go. But the issues will be there to be fought over for the rest of our lives.

I guess my point is, those women (and men) who wish to sit out this election or vote for McCain because Hillary isn't the nominee particularily because of claims of 'sexism' or you wanted a woman President NOW (or whatever reason), well, Hillary (Obama) will only be in office for 4 or 8 years. How a President Obama or President McCain will affect issues for generations is more important..especially for my age group and younger.

One poster said "women are their own worst enemies". Personally, I agree with that. Any woman who calls herself a progressive, or centrist, or moderate who chooses to sit out this election and let McCain get elected, is an enemy to the women who have to live with the decisions McCain makes on labor, on choice, on equal rights, if he is elected...for years. If you can live with sticking it to younger women, by all means, thats your choice. It is a very selfish one though.

As I've said, I look forward to having a woman president in my lifetime. But it will not be Hillary.

That is all.

Tags: woman, president, Hillary, Obama, generations (all tags)

Permalink :: 84 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 3)

Excellent diary and I agree with you.

I was told I could use this quote from a fellow poster on this site, which sums it up nicely:

A female President is a luxury. A sane President is a necessity.

We have two options for the general election. It shouldn't even be a hard choice for feminists.

by upstate girl on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:18:51 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Really.

So basically you're calling Sen. Clinton insane?

LOL

You are quite the expert on all things Upstate.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 3)

There are also many men who share the desire to see a women elected president in our lifetimes.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Hey that's great to hear.

Where are they?

I'd love to meet one.

Lately, been like that ancient Greek guy looking for an honest man. LOL

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

I can think of no less than 50 personal friends and acquaintances off the top of my head. Perhaps you should get out a little more.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Hey great. What part of the country do you live in. I'd love to live in a place where sexism doesn't exist and so many folks want a female president.

I really would.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

In the interest of levity.

I have this image of at least 50 men(you did say men not men and women) all standing around in your living room saying in unison,"Why yes! We would love to support a female for president. Why that would be just great! "

Wow here in my dark hour when I thought the the number of folks who wanted a female president totaled 2. One of those my son.

So give this senile, old feminist some hope buddy.
It's been a long journey and I'd just love to go live where these enlighted people live so that I can see them for myself. Invite them over to my living room for coffee.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

That's not our usual mode, but I'd be happy to arrange it if you are in Ann Arbor any time soon!

I know it is true (obviously) because I understand our shared political commitments and world views. For instance, I can safely assume that this is true for the very vast majority of grad students and faculty in my department. I know it is true of my close friends and many men at my synagogue. I know it is true of most fathers I know (of BOTH sons and daughters, and I have one of each). But much as I would like to, I cannot tell you that there is no sexism or misogyny around here. The struggle continues. I just want you to know, regardless of candidate preference and the outcome of this particular round, that you are not as nearly alone as you think and feel!!!

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Hello Strummerson,

Thank you for the kindness of your answer.

Your experience has not been my experience unfortunately. Nor the experience of alot of women from the looks of the reaction by women in parts of the Democratic Party.

What I am about to say is not in anyway a lecture to you. Not at all. You have been so kind. It is an offer of an explanation of why there might be such an uproar by feminists.

When one of the synagogues here was vandalised, there was an immediate offer of help to clean up the mess and a public outcry against what had been done. People did not want to be associated with anti-semitic behavior. They just wouldn't put up with it. They hugged the necks of folks who have seen anti-semitic behavior for real. They did so to reassure them that those dark days are unwelcome here.

We don't condone or want to see anti-semitic behavior. Won't lecture those who've seen it that they are over reacting and will respect their real fear that left unchallenged that it would come back. Instead they need to be told that the next generation will honor their efforts and will carry on against it when the older folks have gone to their maker. That they can rest easy that this gift will be cherished.

Imagine lecturing the survivor of anti-semitic behavior that it no longer exists. Or worse that they had no idea what it was in the first place. Oh they do know. That's why they are hurt that their children don't appreciate what came before. Or that these same children are not vigilant so that it does not come back.

Now. Imagine, for a minute, those people who have fought against sexism. Fought hard to see that women have every right to be equal. Proud of their accomplishments but equally afraid that should sexism go unchallenged that it could come back or worse that it never left

Discouraging doesn't begin to cover it.

I am glad that you have spoken up in a positive way. I'm sorry that you weren't here earlier. I could have used your help to explain to two younger people just how hurtful they were being to an older feminist. An older woman who was saying," I know what sexism looks like and it is disturbing to me that you brush it off in such a way." After all the hard work of the people, not just women, who have come before. I was one of those so lectured. I tried my best to be nice but explain. I held my tongue. Asked them if they had knowledge of women who had played strong roles in not only the fight against sexism but also racism. They couldn't tell me who these women were. They could, however, be so rude and tell me I couldn't possibly know what feminism was. Mostly because I simply wouldn't say what I knew in my heart to be untrue.

Your response to me was encouraging. Not to give up hope. The other response was combative and belittling. I hope I have never done that to someone else. No saint here but I like to think that I could sympathize with someone else's experience. I was told by another that frankly they didn't care what my experience was. How difficult for the other feminists to hear. All their effort. To be treated in such an uncaring manner when what they needed was the reassurance that the new generation would honor this gift and keep it safe.

Does that make sense. I'm not the spokesperson for the older feminist. But I am older and a woman. Even though my life has looked traditional in many ways, it has not been.

I thank you for the invitation. Having never been to Michigan you are right I will have to come for a visit. It's time. One of only 9 states and US territories I've yet to visit. Pretty place I hear. Green like where I am from.
Maybe before I die I should go see.

Thank you for your encouragement and kind words.

I will try to take them to my heart and to remember them when I am discouraged with the world.

Best regards,

12 dogs.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Beyond kindness, I meant to demonstrate solidarity. If the people I refer to who see things as I do were not painfully aware of the intolerable persistence of misogyny, we would not feel so strongly about the importance is seeing a woman president. Those of us who ended backing Obama in this primary did not do so without significant conflict and difficulty. I also believe that this particular election and office will not provide the last word with regard to Hillary Clinton's career as a leader and symbol. She will continue to be a leader and advocate. Nothing is like the presidency. But it is not the only avenue to move things forward.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Stummerson,

Hey we were just talking about this diary, Sen. Clinton, the Supreme Court, Roe v Wade etc.

Was about to sign out but glad to see your response before I did.

Thing is I don't get the feeling that she wants those other avenues. Otherwise she probably would have quit by now and taken that other path. I'm all for supporting someone who has put up with this much in order to accomplish his or her dream. You've had a dream of this nature yourself. If you were a teacher you might council that the odds are great but never would you tell your student that they could not. Would you? Especially if the "they could not" was because they were a woman. I don't say you meant it this way but--

"... She will continue to be a leader and advocate. Nothing is like the presidency. But it is not the only avenue to move things forward..."

It is a little to me like telling a woman who wants to be a doctor or lawyer or president that if she stays home and raises kids she will still be doing the work of that doctor or lawyer or president. Now I stayed home and raised my son and it was what I felt at the time was the most important thing for me to do. My mother, on the other hand, worked at a profession that she loved and we were raised not just by her but also by grandparents and babysitters and on occasion on our ownselves. This was partly before "women's lib". If my mother had been told to stay home and not be what she dearly loved she'd have been a disaster. Miserable. Let me tell you. There were people who were quick to tell her that she couldn't do what she did. Told here not to feel bad. She'd still effect change by staying home and keeping house and raising kids. She just wouldn't be able to do the job she dearly loved and trained to do. Staying home and keeping house was not her thing. Trust me. I stayed home because it was at the time what I need to do. My mom staying home and keeping house. NO WAY:D

Feminism is about choice and equality. To choose what you do because you in your heart of hearts know it is what you should do. No one could use the law to prevent that because you're a woman. And if you do this job guess what? No one can use the law to prevent you from getting equal pay for equal work. This is exactly the same for race, age, religion and gender. The non discrimination laws.

Looks like Sen. Clinton's dream is to be president. Not some other path. She's on the road and has paid alot of money to do so. As an older female who watched my mother's struggles? I say,"Sen.Clinton. If you want to go for being president? More power to ya'.

Noticed that their was no mention of vice president in your "future avenue of change".

My opinion is that there should be that Unity Ticket. That way the VP is set up for the future presidency down the road.

What they taught us in school is that the VP is the "eyes" and "ears" for the president in the Senate. Even has an office over there. Seems like Sen. Clinton, if she is such a natural for Senator, would be excellent in this job. Unless of course you feel that the VP is a figure head. You and I would disagree and would be finding ourselves taking a lovely side trip through the US Constitution. :D

Of note. Since I mentioned the VP spot. I don't think of women as interchangable. Sen. Clinton brought her supporters to this dance. Not for instance the Governor of Kansas. It would be an insult to say you could put the Gov. of Kansas on the ticket and then tell Sen. Clinton supporters,"There see. We gave you your woman on the ticket. Now be happy. Besides is't just a fake job anyway. Just photo ops and teas. Anybody could do it." It's not. These woman are unique individuals. Oh and I happen to be familiar with the Gov. of Kansas's rise to governor. Are you?

Nope women aren't cogs in a machine. You can't just pop one cog out and replace it with another.

Again, Thank you for your kindness and your solidarity.
I appreciate it very much.

12 dogs.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 10:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

As it happens, I am indeed a teacher. And I have a little trouble with your analogy. The Presidency is not a vocation. It's a singular office. What do I tell a student whose dream begins and ends with "I want to play center field for the Tigers." At any given moment, only one person gets to do that. I certainly won't discourage that student from trying. But I will point out that learning to compose a compelling and interesting essay is still a worthwhile exercise. If your knee goes, I might say, you'd have a shot as a sports writer. Or a scout who needs to present an argument for this or that player in a concise and compelling manner.

Now, far from telling all women to stay home and mollifying them with respect, sincere or not, for homemaking, my choice of Obama merely indicates my preference that another individual serve as president at this time. I have acknowledged HRC's symbolic status. But this is still not reducible to a message to all women, anymore than these candidates are reducible to 'White Woman' and 'Black Man.' In fact, I think that reducing Clinton to her sex and gender is an anti-feminist move. Furthermore, I am not presuming to tell her anything. I may criticize the way in which she is pursuing her dream at a given moment. (And to clarify, I have not always been pleased with everything about Obama and his campaign either.) But I do not criticize the importance and integrity of her pursuit.

I did not bring up VP, because I think that contingency is rather obvious. I simply wanted to point out that a preference of Obama for president does not entail wishing for Clinton to go home to Chappaqua and "bake cookies." As a progressive, I would see her doing so as a blow to a progressive agenda and the struggle to promote it. Certainly feminism is about choice and equality. So is democracy. And it is my right to choose the candidate of my preference. And I am frankly troubled by the analogy that puts me in the position of a condescending man taking choice away from a women in general and patting them on the heads.

My comment was intended to show my respect for Hillary Clinton and my hope that she will continue to be a leader and that I believe her opportunities to do so do not begin and end with the presidency or VP slot. Put another way, the appointment of a particular male Attorney General does not express a belief in the unfitness of all women for that particular office, or to be lawyers in all kinds of capacities.

All that being said, I also want to emphasize that I understand why the disappointment is so great to many feminists of different generations. It is possible to be gratified with an apparent (though not conclusive) outcome and disappointed by that result instead. If the Yanks ever play the Cubs in a World Series, I will be simultaneously thrilled and gratified no matter the outcome. For I have affections for both teams. I share your disappointment. My choice is a conflicted one, because of the very historical perspective you express here. Voting Obama does not entail complacency in the face of the continued under-representation of women in positions of power. At least not of necessity. That is what I would like you to understand. And I apologize if my baseball analogies are particularly inappropriate for this conversation. Structurally they seemed the most compelling ones that came to mind. And nothing would make me happier than if my daughter grew up to manage the Yankees.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:39:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Uhm Strummerson. I'm a Braves fan.

Back later to respond. You have a lot to comment on I want to respect the time and thought with the same courtesy. I am looking forward to exchanging ideas with you on this. Didn't want you to think that my not responding wasn't ignoring.

Back later.

12 dogs.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:38:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

"...Didn't want you to think that my not responding wasn't ignoring..."

Should read.

"...Didn't want you to think that my not responding was ignoring..."

For my birthday I'm asking for typing lessons.

I think it will help.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:41:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Sorry to have taken such a long time to reply.

I have been watching today's response to yesterday's election with interest. I am especially curious at the actions as to the VicePresident spot.

Just curious if the men folk in AnnArbor are asking for a female vice president?

Thank you for being so kind to talk to me. You were much kinder to me in answering my questions than others have been.

I'm grateful for that.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 3)

That is a great quote! Actually just one option...I don't really consider McCain a valid option. :)

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:20:38 PM EST

You would (2.00 / 1)

win over more people, I think, if you would recognize the sexism that has indeed permeated this campaign. Because you so summarily brush it off as contrived, I would say that you might not have actually learned the lessons of those that have gone before you.

Well written, but I think you are missing the real point of 'the stand' at the moment.

by linc on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You would (2.00 / 3)

I'm not intenting to brush it off, but..for a number of women my age..'sexism' in some cases is simply a subjective topic.

I do believe Hillary has been subject to sexism, from some elements of the non-mainstream media and right wingers (which incidently I find...odd that the same right wing media who treated Hillary terribly during the 1990s, are the same people some Hillary supporters use to prop up Hillary now).

So, in any case, sexism is real. I've experienced it in my lifetime. But that does not mean I should be obligated to support Hillary, which was part of the purpose of this diary.

And I resent you being so condescenting to suggest that "I might not have actually learned the lesson of those before me" or that I'm 'missing the point'. Honestly, I think some of you are missing the point.

When some of you suggest you'll let someone (McCain) win, despite that he's stood by and done nothing when a person calledl Hillary a 'bitch' right IN FRONT OF HIM ,or called Chelsea ugly.. honestly,maybe its the 'stands supporters' who don't get it.

That was blatant sexism and you ought to be ashamed for playing these types of games.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You would (2.00 / 1)

sexism, i think, is less serious to white women than to non white women, and i think class also have something to do with it.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You would (none / 0)

"sexism, i think, is less serious to white women than to non white women, and i think class also have something to do with it."

Wow. Now that is a statement that is quite complex. Sexist and racist and divisive class wise. Where is the unity and love? Just Wow.

And look no one said a word. No one lectured Alright on feminism or racism or class warfare. Why is that? No one had a problem lecturing me about feminism yet you let this one slide?

Why am I not surprised.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You must have (none / 0)

confused me with someone else. I have never even considered voting for McCain or not voting for the Democratic nominee.

What I mean is that the 'stand' that you still seem to see as really just a selfish ploy is not so at all- it is about principles, not prospects. It is about having had enough, not about wanting more.

The symbols and tools that the protesters choose employ are insignificant- it is about recognition and waking up, it is not about turning cheek now in hope for a better tomorrow.

All I was saying to you was that if you do not recognize it for what it is, then you probably don't understand it and you most certainly are wasting your words.

Sorry to be so blunt- its my nature.

by linc on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You must have (2.00 / 2)

Because I do believe the 'stand' is a selfish ploy and quite short sighted.

Look, I respect those who put alot of effort into Hillarys campaign. We're all entitled to our opinions. And politics by nature ends up in hurt feelings for alot of those who invested so much into a candidate or issue. But people go on..or should go on.

My concern is we'll have a repeat of Nader in 2008. I don't think it will happen, but anyone who thinks McCain is a better choice than Obama (on progressive issues)..is as boneheaded as anyone who voted Nader in 2000.

Sorry to be so blunt.

And regarding the sexism issue, again, I agree its a significant problem. But it won't be addressed by sitting home election day or voting McCain..which again..is part of the point of my diary.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To each her own (none / 0)

or his in my case. Good luck.

by linc on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You must have (none / 0)

Well here's the problem I got with this. The sexism started early. EARLY. Before only bravado would have Sen. Obama's supporters say he would win. And yet there was ignoring of sexism. No one calling folks out and saying that sexism wouldn't be tolerated. I think that women should make a stand at the convention. To let the Democratic nominee know that they are a force within the party. Otherwise I don't see woman playing a lead roll in an Obama administration. Nor Sen. Clinton's supporters either.

Instead I saw a "say anything/ ignore" attitude.

You're late. And frankly still making excuses.

I hope you aren't a woman or have women offsprings who want to be politically active. Because you are making in durn hard for them now.

Squandering your legacy.

Sad.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Oh, it'll happen. And I'm glad to know it'll happen, and the majority of her support will be garnered not because of her gender, but because she is truly the best candidate for the job.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:39 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Respectfully disagree. If it didn't this time there's not going to be momentum in future for a long while.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Completely disagree. I think if it doesn't happen this time with Hillary, we'll all be hungry for it. I expect one of the next few Democratic nominees will be female.

McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!

by Matt Smith on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:18:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Well Matt Smith?

I will just say this.

We very much disagree. You can try to make yourself feel better about the way Sen. Clinton was treated in this election just to get another candidate elected. You'll have to do it without my help. I won't "whitewash" or spin the situation. I don't share your optimism one bit. I also won't support the female candidates who didn't speak out. They'll eat their own and I won't trust them because of it. Will keep my time and money to support female writers and artists. At least I'll see something worth while from my efforts.

I hope you have a good day Matt Smith. That you spend it with friends and family and having a good and kind laugh.

You can reply if you want to but frankly I've got other things to do with what remains of my time here on this Earth.

Ta'

by 12 dogs and a blog on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As a male who is in your demographic (2.00 / 1)

I agree with you, especially this statement (though the 40% number seems off)

Anyway, at least 40% of us voted for Obama..on average. Politicians like Hillary and Obama come and go. But the issues will be there to be fought over for the rest of our lives.

My demographic cohort is here as democrats (by a 60-40 margin) to stay...

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:24:40 PM EST

Amen! (2.00 / 3)

I believe that under Hillary or Obama women will prosper like never before. They will have more opportunities than they will under a McCain adminstration.

by progressive liberal on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Amen! (none / 0)

No they won't darlin'. If it weren't on the agenda already? It won't be now.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As a male who is in your demographic (2.00 / 3)

I'm not sure what your demographic cohort is, but I believe since 2004, 16 million Americans became eligible to vote (born between 1986-1990). That will happen again in the next 4 years.

That demographic (born in the 1980s and 1990s) is going to be politically powerful..and significantly Democratic. You can already see it in this election.

My belief, I think..is they want 2 things..a change from the Baby Boom type politics, and a move to social left on a number of issues.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a millenial (2.00 / 1)

born in 1984. We are a sleeping giant (figuratively) who are awakening due to the process (all democratic candidates deserve a shout out for this).

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My bad (none / 0)

I read your demographic as millenial. Apology for my clumsy reading.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you will be supported by a lot of us (2.00 / 1)

boomers who bemoaned the shift to the right over the last few decades...as long as we are around anyway. Keep in mind, Obama is a boomer himself.

While you guys are the future of the party, in the present you still have us and many of us are no strangers to political activism. We remember (ugh) Nixon.

I hope that didn't sound aggressive, it was meant as a show of solidarity. I'm so glad we will be passing the torch to new generations of liberals/progressives.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He is (2.00 / 1)

I thought he was a Generation Jones guy (not in his beliefs) but in his birth date.

But then again Gen. Jones is considered the tail end of the boomers.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is (none / 0)

I tend to subscribe to the Neil Howe and Bill Strauss analysis on generations. They believe Generation X (which includes Obama) goes from 1961-1981.

Read "Generations" sometime.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was using a (none / 0)

1944-1964 range for boomers. Perhaps that has changed.

I have an anecdote about that. Some friends and I attended a 1960's dress up party once. The group I went with all dressed like the late sixties (love beads, bell bottoms, mini skirts, 'fros). But there were a bunch of people just a few years older who dressed like the cast of Grease (early 1960's, poodle skirts, sweater sets, slicked hair) and they all wanted to dance the limbo.

I guess we each remembered the decade as the part when we were between 18 and 21.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

I dont think we are looking at 20-30 years for a female Prez. If Obama goes down in the fall here is hoping Barbra Boxer gets in 2012. Super smart, super brave "remember fighting Ohio's electoral votes?" voted against the Iraq War, need I go on...

by Demrock6 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:34:44 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

hey. not going to happen.

no woman president on the horizon

sorry.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 2)

How's about we get the ERA passed this time?

It's been over 30 years, I think this time we could get it through.

Peace, S.

by Reluctantpopstar on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:44:40 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH With this lot?!?!!? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA Don't you know? Sexism doesn't exist.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH What you think that sexism exists? That is was evident in this primary? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Someone quick, ya'll tell this person that they don't have a clue what feminism is and that you won't be blackmailed into voting for Sen. Clinton. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Sorry that is just soooooo funny.LOL

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Does this woman you imagine would be the President who is born in the 60s exist in reality?

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:46:02 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Of course she does. :)

I just have no idea who. Honestly. 20-25 years ago, did anyone hear of Hillary Clinton, or Nancy Pelosi, or Claire McCaskill?

Its just a thought.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:50:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

i am sure someone has heard of Hillary Clinton 20 - 25 years ago.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

And I'm sure there are people today who know this woman who will become President in our future.

The point is, I don't know who she is. I do know we'll elect a woman, and I do believe it will be within the next 20 years, so obviously whoever she is..is alive today.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

20 years ago, she was a first lady in Arkansas.

duh.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

And i think you are being overly optimistic, I am 24 and i don't believe there would be any female president anytime soon, if not Hillary...

"I'd also like to point out that an African-American male made it into the U.S. House of Representatives some 46 years before the first woman was elected to the House. Joseph Rainey of South Carolina was elected during Reconstruction in 1870. Jeanette Rankin from Montana did not win election to the House until 1916. Their portraits hang just a few feet apart from each other in the U.S. Capitol."

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

I'm not sure why you're so pessimist that if Hillary isn't elected, then we won't see a woman be elected for a long time. Thats kind of a defeatist attitude, sorry to say.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

no , i am just a realist and i can predict what will happen from judging history.. a black guy is going to be a president before a woman, confirmed with history so far.. another woman president? maybe another 50 years.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

what i do know is a woman president is only going to be possible if she has been in the political system long enough, has enough ties, has a strong political husband, all "first time woman" politican has been elected because she has a support of a male figure with deep political ties..shes going to need that to raise the kind of money a guy can raise, this is historical pattern and it will continue, i do not see any woman who has as much political forces as Hillary , you need many decades to build that , and Hillary has been in the political trenches for a very long time, something i just exposed you to. so there you go.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like the political future of my state's junior (2.00 / 1)

Senator Amy Klobuchar.

She is immensely popular here in MN (her net approval rating is usually >+20%), and is silently making really smart moves on endorsing legislation and positioning herself.

If MN weren't so reliably blue she'd make a great Veep candidate in a few years.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:27:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

Sorry. Don't get me wrong I'm glad that you like her.

Nope.

No one's gonna give her that kind of money.

Sorry.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

I read Clinton raised 170 million dollar.. thats some historical figure.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nope (none / 0)

I'm sorry. But is that still Sen. Clinton? I thought she raised all that money to become President Hillary Clinton not remain Sen. Hillary Clinton.

Sigh. I'm a female who actually had the audacity of hope that a female would be seriously concidered president.

LOL Nope. We'll be lucky to keep the rights we've got.

Man ya'll really are amazing.

Just glad I'm older and that my progeny are male. Otherwise. I'd be pretty depressed right now.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

With all due respect, the mistake you're making here is assuming America of the period from the early 20th century is the same as it is today.

America wasn't really open to electing women or minorities during that time. Women and minorities who were elected were exceptions to the rule.

However, America is different today.Much different. People are so much more likely to vote for a woman.

So try not to compare America of that period ..to today. :)

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 2)

Then the issue of Sen. Clinton being a woman should have never even come to mind. It did. It does. Again sorry.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

yeah I know the times are changing, but they are not changing that fast, thats like saying because gay people are allowed to marry in California, there will be a gay president within 50 years.

History tells a very telling pattern, true, women have made big gains, gays have made big gains, and transgender people are and will make big gains, but people are still influenced by history and history shows that it would be very hard for a woman to become a president. Hillary has shown just how hard it is, and Hillary is a very rare, very exceptional and very famous woman politican. I cannot think of another woman who is even remotely close to where she is and share the same determination that she has.

Yes, so it will be a VERY VERY LONG TIME before you have another woman president.

by alright on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 3)

lol Nope.

I realize this might seem arrogant or silly but no. There hasn't been enough distance from the past. Plus there's no push from the present. No irritant that would propel another woman forward.
Takes alot of wanta to become president. No one out there with that kind of drive. Except Sen. Clinton. That kind of drive won't be back for quite a while.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Will you be happy if Hillary is sworn in as POTUS in January 2009?

by Hurdy Gurdy on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:48:41 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Yes. I have my reservations about her, but I'll still vote for her and be happy if she's sworn in office. Thats a big 'if' though.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

I've been on vacation and didn't read the diary to which you make reference.

Let me just respond to you with this comment:

I'm much older than you are and my mother was born when women didn't have the right to vote, much less the right to an abortion if they needed one. I lived through the battles for pay equity, right to abortion, right to have a credit card in your own name, etc., etc. etc. Been there. Done that.

So when I read "If you can live with sticking it to younger women, by all means, thats your choice. It is a very selfish one though."...I just want to scream. "Stick it to younger women?" The whole women's movement has been about obtaining rights for your generation!!!!

I have NO intention of "sticking it" to anyone. I am going to vote for the Democrat. But, please, please, spare me the lecture. And good luck to you. You and your Millenial Generation are going to need it.

by Radiowalla on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:48:56 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 2)

You completely missed the point of my diary. It was about those who ..because Hillary isn't going to be the nominee...are threatening to stay home or vote McCain on election day.

That doesn't appear to be you now, does it.

My belief is those who will stand by, vote McCain..are the ones who are going to 'stick it' to younger voters.

Certainly you can't disagree with that.

AnnMarie

by wiscogirl101 on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 2)

No, I don't.

But at this point in time, you might make better use of your time by trying to mend the fissures instead of shaking your finger at those who are justifiably angry and alienated.

by Radiowalla on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 2)

Have you been lectured on the fact that sexism just doesn't exist today.

I was lectured about that the same day family members heard folks say Sen. Clinton shouldn't be elected president because she might have PMS and start a war. On Mother's Day no less.

Now it's my understanding that that folks are being unkind to Michelle Obama. But hey that must be a mistake because these days sexist remarks do not exist.

From what I'm told.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you Radiowalla! (2.00 / 2)

I am a diehard Clintonista and I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever vote for John McCain.

Frankly, I am getting really sick of these so-called "unity" diaries written by Obama supporters who want to declare victory and lecture us Clinton supporters on the need to vote for the nominee. To me, it seems more like gloating than a genuine call for unity.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you Radiowalla! (none / 0)

Now now. Psychodrew. This is about unifing the party. Can't you tell? Healing the wounds. That's why there is still at this moment another thread called the Devil in a Pantsuit. Why last night on tv they were still making "beaver" and "bush" jokes. Why folks were saying Sen. Clinton can run for office. She might have PMS and start a war with Iran. (Note that no one worries about Sen MCCain or Sen. Obama's testosterone levels starting a war.) Yeppers it's societies way of healing.

LOL. Yeah.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 1)

So when I read "If you can live with sticking it to younger women, by all means, thats your choice. It is a very selfish one though."...I just want to scream. "Stick it to younger women?" The whole women's movement has been about obtaining rights for your generation!!!!

You already said you're going to vote for the Democratic nominee. Her statement wasn't directed at you.

It was directed at a number of people on this site who proclaim they're feminist out of one side of their mouth, and swear they're voting for McCain over Obama out of the other side. These quasi-feminists are often quick to bring up that they've lived through the great advances in women's rights, but they use that as a bludgeon to demand that younger women must vote Clinton or hand in their feminist membership card.

by upstate girl on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

There ya go Upstate. You tell 'em. Ya'll listen. Upstate is a 3rd generation Democrat AND she KNOWS feminism. Ya'll pay attention.

Go on Upstate. :D

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's weird (2.00 / 1)

Without giving out my age, I belong to the infamous Generation X, who along with the Millenials (born after 1982) are pretty much responsible for giving the Democratic Party, and hopefully America..Barack Obama. My generation and the one behind me have the most to gain..or lose.. by our decisions, and we take it seriously contrary to the complaints of some older people.

I agree with you (I'm an older Gen Xer).

It's not a swipe against older voters, nor am I blindly ignoring that there is still sexism (or racism) in our nation.

I've been loathe to jump much into the identity arguments -- from either side -- obviously, as a white male, it doesn't make much sense.

Still.

Neither race nor sex played any sort of role in my decision in backing Obama (nor NOT to back Clinton) nor any of the many other Obama supporters I know... black, white, male, female.

I'm something of an oddity in my age group -- this summer will be my 10th year with the same company I've worked for since I graduated college.

In those 10 years, I've had three different bosses, all three women. My current boss's manager is also a woman. Our division's new director is man - but he replaced a woman who left to run a different division. His boss -- our CEO (and we're a Fortune 500 company) -- is also a woman.

My second boss - who basically gave me my "big break" in the company - is still the person I consider my mentor.

It just never - from the day I was hired until now - never occurred to me that it was a 'big deal'.

That's not to take anything away from or otherwise diminish the struggles of woman that have fought for equality...

I just don't think my experience is all that unusual among people in my age bracket.... at least, among my co-workers, my friends, my family my age -- I KNOW it's not all that unusual.

I think that's a GOOD thing, not something to be mourned.

by zonk on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:50:23 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (2.00 / 4)

It seems a little contradictory to invoke your "right as a woman and as an American, to choose who I felt was the better candidate" while in the same breath saying that any centrist, moderate, or progressive woman who doesn't vote for Obama is an enemy to other women.

I (a Gen X man, fwiw) will definitely be pulling the lever for Obama in the fall. But painting people who make other choices as enemies by definition is a little off-putting. That's a pretty divisive stand for somebody looking to move past "Baby Boom" politics. You might want to try the gentler arts of persuasion, rather than telling people to get on the train or f--- off.

John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."

by Fuzzy Dunlop on Mon May 19, 2008 at 10:58:14 PM EST

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Haven't ya heard. They don't have to listen to Sen. Clinton supporters. I was told that Sen. Obama has it sewed up and frankly they don't really care what a Sen. Clinton supporters think. They're all, as I've read, "dead enders" who should be ignored. Apparently, so I've been told, Sen. Obama doesn't need Sen. Clinton suporters votes.

Didn't sound like unity to me. Unless unity is a steamroller. Apparently though that's what's called unity.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:04:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

interesting (2.00 / 4)

I am also of the gen x and from the same state as you are.

I am interested in what you are saying because the sexist slanders in our state (and only our state - the only state where Obama won the working class) were unequal any other states' election.

Most of it didn't come from Obama, but from the pundits on tv - alarmingly enough. They were sexist, but couched in terms that pretended that they weren't sexist because they were aimed at HER. Somehow these made it acceptible. As another gen x, I saw through these.

I was appalled actually that there was not a peep anywhere denouncing it. There was also, in the meantime, a lot coming out about how racist one was if they didn't vote for Obama - as if now that we'd affirmed that there was nothing to like about Hillary, the only possible reason that one could vote for her was if one was racist.

I heard not a peep anywhere about the real differences in health care. The meme here was that Hillary and Obama's policies were the same (the SAME!) but, of course, Hillary's CHARACTER was different and something not to be condoned. Hillary's character was inexplicably linked to being a female (and one of THOSE types of females at that).

I'm one of those who challenged memes in the media as par for the course. This meme was so overwhelming and so constant, it begged to be exampined more closely.

I'm surprised you didn't.

by searchforsolidarity on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:08:30 PM EST

Re: interesting (none / 0)

the only state where Obama won the working class

Could you cite that?

by notedgeways on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: interesting (none / 0)

It's known as an 'outlyer' because it's the only state that he won a majority of blue collar voters. It appears when you appeal to sexism more strongly, people will identify with that - even women, apparently.

by searchforsolidarity on Mon May 19, 2008 at 11:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: interesting (none / 0)

No... see when I say 'cite' I mean provide a credible source rather then an assertion. If you can not back up the bold statement with something other then 'everyone knows' or somesuch it casts doubt on your point.

i am not saying what you are saying is wrong, but you have to back it up before I can accept it.

by notedgeways on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

I appreciate your diary.

But I want the 2008 election to be the year that a very loud message was sent BY women TO the democratic party and that is....

YOU can't do THIS without us and YOU can't do this TO us.

My message will be that this party and their candidate can go to HELL if it's not Hillary Clinton.

I am a lifelong democrat, but I will not be if/when the day comes and she is NOT our nominee.

by nikkid on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:22:51 AM EST

I better get my way or else. (none / 0)

When my son used to send that kind of message in the grocery store, I would take him to the car.

Of course, that was a long time ago when he was going through the terrible two's.

No Way, No How, No McCain!

by GFORD on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:48:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I better get my way or else. (none / 0)

Are you a woman GFord

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:01:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Boy do you (none / 0)

make women look bad.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 08:33:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Boy do you (none / 0)

Are you a womahn nrafter?

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:00:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

so, you would rather help perpetuate a war then elect someone who may stop it? You would rather lose the SCOTUS for another generation based on principal? You would rather have a president who refers to his wife as a cunt rather then one who refers to a reporter as sweetie then calls, in person, and apologies? 4 to 8 more years of the federal government demonizing GLBT...

Ideals are great, but they don't feed the kids.

by notedgeways on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:09:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Have you read that thread, " I will not be blackmailed into voting for your candidate?"

Cause for some reason your comment just made me think of it.

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:03:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Woman President in my Lifetime (none / 0)

Me too Nikkid

I'm really tired of "say anything to get elected" folks "glossing over" women's issues.

Ya'll make the Democratic Party look all kinds of wrong when you do this to women.

The responses to Nikkid are condesending.
Actually the sound alot like the responses of some of the Republican women who use terms like "Feminazi" and lurve Rush Limbaugh.

You know sometimes I read comments on this site and I think, "Hmmm. Sounds just like the Rush Limbaugh women"

Is this really a Progressive Democratic Site?

Really?

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:10:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.